This is a great submission. Very readable and coherent. I was hoping to make a submission but honestly the form is so daunting….
I was wanting to say that the words around midwifery are considered discriminatory by those with a world-view informed by gender theory (woman/mother/breast feeding) as they do not include females who identify otherwise.
This is a difference of beliefs, not discrimination….. Anyway, you have thoroughly covered a lot of these aspects, hope they are taken on board. Thank you for your clear writing!
I’m putting pen to paper this weekend. There have been great submissions shared on here yours included. I hope I can get across my concerns. You know when I think more and more about this the more I realised that I as am women I always enjoyed my protections that have been provided along the years. Women have enjoyed the freedoms we were given in the west. I now think of my gym with shared changing rooms and it does cater for a seperate female gym which could be used by men in the future. To be fair most men that lift will continue in the main gym. However we have women who use the seperate gym as they feel more comfortable and want privacy from the male gaze. I’m thinking about single sex schools, I went to a girls school and sent my girl to one. I wanted her to be free to develop as a teenage girl in the company of girls especially when it came time for puberty development. I guess what I’m saying is that, I’ve enjoyed my freedoms and having protections around me as a woman but at the same time knowing I am an independent women and can take part in society without discrimination. I hold we have as women as sacred I don’t want to share that space with an actor. We also don’t want our girls to be erased and exposed to predators who will see this is as an in to commit. I like most women on this platform agree with this. Why are women having to make allowances, move over, share, bow down, change language, be accommodating, be kind, and be respectful to actors who think that a woman is something you can do by putting on lipstick and growing fake breasts. They never will be one ever. As much as this battle we are facing to save ourselves from invasion we can always take a moment to reflect and look at us we are women and what wonderful girls we are, our club is special, unique, we have the ability to girth birth to new life. Girls the world starts and ends with us !!!!
Hooray for submitting this weekend. A lovely comment, thank you. I think it's so true those female-only spaces are one of the ways that we can figure out how we want to be in the rest of the world. They might ebb and flow in importance to us during the years but it's important to know they're there and protected when we want or need them.
Surprising how a cult can make Human Rights Act changes, which will cause the elimination of the freedom and protection of 50% of the population. Just a reminder there are only two sexes female and male. And no one was born in the wrong body.
Love everything about this post, and can add another angle: when women want to exclude trans-identified men from a space or an event (or their dating pool) it's not because TIMs are trans, it's because they're male. So it's not trans discrimination, it's sex discrimination, and a well-established exception exists to allow it.
The Law Commission needs to squarely confront the question of whether there are grounds to make an exception to the exception, for the benefit of TIMs, which in turn would require some proof that TIMs are less of a threat to women than any other man (or less unattractive to lesbians, etc). There is no such proof, and I doubt there ever will be, especially as long as we allow self-ID
Thanks Petula and yours is an excellent angle. If anything we're male-phobic about men being in women's spaces, it' s not about their transness. Of course phobic is the wrong word, we just maintain the right to autonomy. Trans identified women (ie women who think they're something else) are welcome, right? In the late 80s/early 90s I was definitely part of the Women reclaim night marches contingent that said the march should be for women and their kids and not for males no matter how supportive. They could bring food and organise child care, we thought. But some women really felt the wrongness of excluding men, and its carried on in subsequent women-only ventures I have been part of, a real visceral horror of women caucusing without men. This feels like the same thing. We truly don't care if they're trans, we care that they're male.
Thanks G, and yes to all that. There is always a question as to whether a female-only space is justified at all, but once it's decided that it is, then it needs to exclude all male people, irrespective of how they identify. Otherwise you don't have a female-only space. You would think people would get this!
This is a wonderful piece of clear-headed argument. It certainly ought to sway the Law Commission to take a fair approach based on the downstream consequences of changing the language of the HRC rather than leaving it as it is.
Unfortunately, the widespread capture of institutions in Aotearoa New Zealand means we probably shouldn’t get our hopes up. Sadly.
Thanks Isobel. We can but try (and document and wave round the documentation when the whole thing collapses in a heap as people realise that none of it makes sense and none of it really helps anyone).
It is too difficult to understand and as I can not lie, impossible for me to make a submission as I would have to tick the box to declare that I understood it!
I just wanted to say the Human Rights Act needs to be abolished. Too much regulation and too many laws protecting some citizens and others not so much. Nothing fair about that Act.
This information needs to be shared and I thank you for doing the heavy lifting for some people who know where they stand, but can't, for many reasons, formulate a response to the inate bias of the proposal and the bias within it.
This is so good and truthful in our age of lies, damned lies and deception, I was almost aroused by it. Certainly relieved and inspired beyond measure. As an atheist I liked this in particular: "People who identify as transgender and non-binary and advocate for recognition as their nominated sex are people who hold a belief.... similar to a person who believes in God and holds their Christian faith as an essential element of their identity, or a person who believes in astrology and makes decisions around their identity as a Virgo." Protect the right to believe but not to bullshit others. Amazing we have to remind our top legal minds of the difference between belief and fact, but there it is, in black and white. Good on you Garwhoungle. 😀
Thanks RGE! I think there's lots more to make as well, but you know time, resources, trying to navigate that gigantic doc. I look forward to SUFW and Women's Rights Party putting up their submission and adding a link to it in these comments. Ditto you if you have one!
This is a great submission. Very readable and coherent. I was hoping to make a submission but honestly the form is so daunting….
I was wanting to say that the words around midwifery are considered discriminatory by those with a world-view informed by gender theory (woman/mother/breast feeding) as they do not include females who identify otherwise.
This is a difference of beliefs, not discrimination….. Anyway, you have thoroughly covered a lot of these aspects, hope they are taken on board. Thank you for your clear writing!
I’m putting pen to paper this weekend. There have been great submissions shared on here yours included. I hope I can get across my concerns. You know when I think more and more about this the more I realised that I as am women I always enjoyed my protections that have been provided along the years. Women have enjoyed the freedoms we were given in the west. I now think of my gym with shared changing rooms and it does cater for a seperate female gym which could be used by men in the future. To be fair most men that lift will continue in the main gym. However we have women who use the seperate gym as they feel more comfortable and want privacy from the male gaze. I’m thinking about single sex schools, I went to a girls school and sent my girl to one. I wanted her to be free to develop as a teenage girl in the company of girls especially when it came time for puberty development. I guess what I’m saying is that, I’ve enjoyed my freedoms and having protections around me as a woman but at the same time knowing I am an independent women and can take part in society without discrimination. I hold we have as women as sacred I don’t want to share that space with an actor. We also don’t want our girls to be erased and exposed to predators who will see this is as an in to commit. I like most women on this platform agree with this. Why are women having to make allowances, move over, share, bow down, change language, be accommodating, be kind, and be respectful to actors who think that a woman is something you can do by putting on lipstick and growing fake breasts. They never will be one ever. As much as this battle we are facing to save ourselves from invasion we can always take a moment to reflect and look at us we are women and what wonderful girls we are, our club is special, unique, we have the ability to girth birth to new life. Girls the world starts and ends with us !!!!
Hooray for submitting this weekend. A lovely comment, thank you. I think it's so true those female-only spaces are one of the ways that we can figure out how we want to be in the rest of the world. They might ebb and flow in importance to us during the years but it's important to know they're there and protected when we want or need them.
Submitted !
Surprising how a cult can make Human Rights Act changes, which will cause the elimination of the freedom and protection of 50% of the population. Just a reminder there are only two sexes female and male. And no one was born in the wrong body.
Hooray for submitting. I am hopeful the Law Commission will get a good range of views and remember that reality is important (like two sexes).
The trans movement is all totally insane. What kind of spell are all these people enabling this under ?
Exactly. The left went individualistic, regressive and anti-women.
Love everything about this post, and can add another angle: when women want to exclude trans-identified men from a space or an event (or their dating pool) it's not because TIMs are trans, it's because they're male. So it's not trans discrimination, it's sex discrimination, and a well-established exception exists to allow it.
The Law Commission needs to squarely confront the question of whether there are grounds to make an exception to the exception, for the benefit of TIMs, which in turn would require some proof that TIMs are less of a threat to women than any other man (or less unattractive to lesbians, etc). There is no such proof, and I doubt there ever will be, especially as long as we allow self-ID
PS I especially love your point about the male veto. So right!
Thanks Petula and yours is an excellent angle. If anything we're male-phobic about men being in women's spaces, it' s not about their transness. Of course phobic is the wrong word, we just maintain the right to autonomy. Trans identified women (ie women who think they're something else) are welcome, right? In the late 80s/early 90s I was definitely part of the Women reclaim night marches contingent that said the march should be for women and their kids and not for males no matter how supportive. They could bring food and organise child care, we thought. But some women really felt the wrongness of excluding men, and its carried on in subsequent women-only ventures I have been part of, a real visceral horror of women caucusing without men. This feels like the same thing. We truly don't care if they're trans, we care that they're male.
Thanks again for lovely comments.
Thanks G, and yes to all that. There is always a question as to whether a female-only space is justified at all, but once it's decided that it is, then it needs to exclude all male people, irrespective of how they identify. Otherwise you don't have a female-only space. You would think people would get this!
Thankyou for the support and nice words Gay! It means a lot.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I really appreciate what you do. Life today is a minefield and it's great that there is someone as clearheaded as you
This is a wonderful piece of clear-headed argument. It certainly ought to sway the Law Commission to take a fair approach based on the downstream consequences of changing the language of the HRC rather than leaving it as it is.
Unfortunately, the widespread capture of institutions in Aotearoa New Zealand means we probably shouldn’t get our hopes up. Sadly.
Thanks Isobel. We can but try (and document and wave round the documentation when the whole thing collapses in a heap as people realise that none of it makes sense and none of it really helps anyone).
It is too difficult to understand and as I can not lie, impossible for me to make a submission as I would have to tick the box to declare that I understood it!
I just wanted to say the Human Rights Act needs to be abolished. Too much regulation and too many laws protecting some citizens and others not so much. Nothing fair about that Act.
Just to let you know that;
"There was a problem restacking this item "
This information needs to be shared and I thank you for doing the heavy lifting for some people who know where they stand, but can't, for many reasons, formulate a response to the inate bias of the proposal and the bias within it.
I hope the ability to restack returns soon.
Oh thank you I see from the stats that a few people HAVE restacked it. Has the problem resolved for you Debbie?
This is so good and truthful in our age of lies, damned lies and deception, I was almost aroused by it. Certainly relieved and inspired beyond measure. As an atheist I liked this in particular: "People who identify as transgender and non-binary and advocate for recognition as their nominated sex are people who hold a belief.... similar to a person who believes in God and holds their Christian faith as an essential element of their identity, or a person who believes in astrology and makes decisions around their identity as a Virgo." Protect the right to believe but not to bullshit others. Amazing we have to remind our top legal minds of the difference between belief and fact, but there it is, in black and white. Good on you Garwhoungle. 😀
LOL and thanks Terf Vibes.
Thanks for sharing your excellent submission. You have clearly identified the most important points to make.
Thanks RGE! I think there's lots more to make as well, but you know time, resources, trying to navigate that gigantic doc. I look forward to SUFW and Women's Rights Party putting up their submission and adding a link to it in these comments. Ditto you if you have one!